Originally Posted by takkaria
I find it hard to believe that you make this suggestion with a straight face. The most popular – by what measure? Famous – maybe in that everyone has heard of Dungeons and Dragons – but not the actual details of the bestiary, which tends towards being quite generic as has been pointed out above.
The good thing about DnD and other tabletop fantasy RPG universes that they are truly ‘evolving’ – evolving in a good way, becomming richer. As Derakon said before about Moria vs Angband:
Originally Posted by Derakon
Angband was basically “maximalist Moria” when it first came out. Moria has 50 levels? Angband has 100! You can beat Moria at around clvl 30? In Angband you can go all the way up to clvl 50! Moria has warrior, rogue, paladin, mage, and priest? Angband has rangers too and everyone (except the warrior) gets twice as many spellbooks! Moria has ego items? Angband has artifacts! Moria has 150 monster types (or however many it was)? Angband has 500, and some of them are unique!
‘DnD’ (by this acronym in current discussion I mean not only DnD, but actually all pool of fantasy pen-and-paper role-playing games) also going this way, constantly. It provides more and more content! Each next edition (for example, classic DnD itself got already 5th editions) gives something new. And it’s fun to have new stuff, especially when it make sense!
Not all introducted in new table-top games editions stuff is good, but it’s Angband advantage – to choose what to take; some monsters could make Vanilla Angband lore better, more rich and exiting.
At the same time – Tolkien lore is STATIC. I’m sorry, guy, but Tolkien is dead. He won’t write new stuff and won’t ‘create’ new monsters. His universe is quite brilliant, but it was created long time ago, dozens of years before DnD appeared (not speaking about PC RPG games). Tolkien’s bestiary can not evolve, it’s ‘canonic’ and ‘Tolkien’s heritage’ protect his lore from any changes or ‘evolvement’ – which is pretty silly (as all attempts of copyright forces to restrain other peoples creative).
So while Vanilla Angband is open to new ‘DnD’ (and other pen-n-paper fantasy worlds) influence and take ideas from it – it’s great advantage. Restricting game to pure-Tolkien and wiping DnD stuff from it – not only removes 30 years flavour which everybody get used for, but also makes game more ‘STATIC’!. So when you speak about ‘evolving’ – it’s not evolving, guys, but a building a border; whats Nick doing:
1) wiping DnD stuff
2) making pure-Tolkien border around what left in there
Yep, it’s new high fence around Angband lore. It’s like stuff which Saruman made to Isengard – from diverse beautiful land with trees – he put everything in ‘order’ by cutting trees down and made his land covered with similar grey stone – the same thing Nick is doing with Angand lore right now.
So despite of some opinions in this thread – I’m not after making Angband static – vice versa! But it should be enrichment, taking all the best from fantasy worlds; not restrictions by one universe. Of course, each new addition should be discussed – how it would fit into the present lore (so we won’t have rockets in Vanilla lol).
Vanilla Angband traditional lore – mixed Universe. It’s pretty special – with the ‘core’ of Tolkien (Nazguls, hobbits, Azog etc) and with RICH DnD flavour around it. And it’s fun to play with such game. It’s not boring as some other ‘pure’ Tolkien games and it’s evolving! Without DnD it would be boring static.
Angand Vanilla is: Tolkien ‘core’ enriched with proper DnD stuff. Dark elves, kobolds, gnomes and other old fellas – fits good in it, there is no need to wipe them!
This is yet another point to add to previous 9 points which in my ‘last word’. So now it’s now 10 reasons to save Vanilla Angband lore.
I again wanna repeat quote from my first message in this thread:
Originally Posted by tangar
How come that I’m as a huge Tolkien fan (damm I even runned in the forests with wooden sword in real life) – do not like current Angband tolkienization? Because it’s a conflict of interests – Tolkien lore VS Angband lore. Sorry, but Angband is not a fanfic Tolkien website to bend it like this. In Angband ‘game’ it’s lore and traditions more precious then Tolkien heritage.