Angband Vanilla vs Tolkien’s Angband

There is a dramma at Angband oook forums. Nick (current Angband maintainer) are threatening to ban me for… disagreement with him 🙂 Great community managment, Nick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
OK. Enough.

Enough of what..? Enough of discussion and freedom of speach on Angband forums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
No matter what you say, tangar, the new changes will stay in effect, and they will become part of Angband.

Of course they are. Nick, you’ve won this ‘dispute’ from the beginning. I said about it in several posts in this thread – I’m among minority and this discussion won’t change anything:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar 
I myself after reading this thread feel that it’s really pointless for me to participate in V-discussions anymore; it’s pointless to try and save certain monsters from destruction, it won’t save V

The goal of this discussion is to show that there are people who cares about Vanilla and it’s lore and to spread the truth, not to change your mind (it was clear from the beginning that it’s impossible).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
I have listened patiently to everything you have had to say, on this thread and others. I have responded in detail to all the points in your “last message about this topic“.

Yep, I’ve read your answers and they sounds like ‘to mill the wind’. You just repeat your mantra. In my ‘last word‘ I said everything which I wanted and I become silent as I promised – because there was nothing to add.

And now, month past from my ‘last word’ and for that time more people came there, people who share my point of view and do not agree with you.. So now I have to say something again. And I hoped for constructive dialogue, but you and your adepts just want shut me up. Very good way of communication, sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
I have listened while you lay down the law on what is supposed to be in Angband and what isn’t in a remarkable display of arrogance (you apparently feel entitled to dictate to everyone else what should be in a game you don’t even play)

This is a lie and you know it. I’ve answered to it there: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showpos…0&postcount=38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
and ignorance (to pick just two examples, krakens have never been in Angband, and kobolds still are).

Yep, krakens are from TomeNET, based at old Vanilla version which also got some more DnD monsters from other variants. And krakens should be at Angband, it’s not only mine POV. Devs should enrich game’s lore, not delete parts of it. But with your ‘tolkien’-purification I doubt krakens or other cool stuff would ever appear..

Considering kobolds: you are going to butcher them a bit later, together with gnomes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
Races

  • Gnome: Here we have a problem. This is a D&D race with nothing in common with anything in Middle Earth, except in as far as they’re derivative of both hobbits and dwarves. Also “gnome” was Tolkien’s name for the Noldor for a long time. Need to go.
  • Kobold: Just no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
But from now on, I am not going to read or respond to anything you have to say, on any topic.

What could I say. It’s very “productive” approach lol You are truly the community hero.. Some time ago, before you started the butchering I’ve left this message:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar 
Nick, it’s great to see how you ‘observing’ & ‘scouting’ at different ‘battlefields’  I’m learning a lot from how you look at things, trying to be unaffected and to look from the point of view of the game itself, impersonal; and at the same time being open to community. Really cool approach for maintaining the project. Respect!

// sorry for offtopic 

Now I see that I was mistaken. It’s alright. Mistakes makes us stronger, we should learn stuff from them.. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
You are free to keep post
ing here (although I could ban you, and probably have sufficient reason)

Oh, so nice words, thank you very much to make everything clear (about your personality) DD 

… But actually I shouldn’t use ‘DD’ smiles right now – it’s not funny, but pretty sad… Very disappointing (without sarcasm)..

Ok, lets take a look. Which reason to ban me? That I’m not worshipping you? Good point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
and others are free to respond to you in any way they see fit. But you will have no effect on anything I do to Angband.

There wasn’t any effect. Actually there is no effect from anyone. You are doing what you planned long time ago, alone. You implement ‘minor’ stuff which other people suggest to you to have ‘visibility’ that you listen people. But really it doesn’t important to you, you have you own design (FFAngband -> Vanilla) and you follow it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
I should also point out that the changes I have made are not set in stone, and some of them may well be reverted before 4.2. The reason I have put them out so early and so openly is so I can get sensible, constructive feedback from the many excellent people here who care about and actually play the game. And anyone who has been paying attention will have noticed that I have already reverted a number of changes. But any suggestion you have to make will be completely ignored.

As I said in the beginning, > month ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar 
I myself after reading this thread feel that it’s really pointless for me to participate in V-discussions anymore; it’s pointless to try and save certain monsters from destruction, it won’t save V

I have a discussion in this thread only to show that there are still exist people who cares about Vanilla and it’s lore. And look – there are such people. Even among your ‘majority’ – there are a lot of “it’s sad that dark elves are gone”. Do you care about it? Nope – you have ‘a plan’ and made decision for all people long time ago: most of the community do not care about lore so it wasn’t really hard to implement your ‘idea’. And a few who cares – you do not care about them. You got the PLAN!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
I am very aware of the relative power I have here as accepted maintainer, forum moderator and someone with write access to the Github repository, and have been cautious about misusing it. But this has now reached the point where you are derailing the positive discussions which are necessary to proceed with the plans for 4.2 in a way that will leave the actual players of Angband happiest. The time has come to make it clear that your contributions will no longer be considered.

They won’t be considered only by you. Also after some time there would be another maintainer and I hope that your ‘lore’ changes would be reverted…

I still don’t understand why you want to ruin V-lore so much. You’ve created FAAngband – pure-Tolkien variant. Why not to continue work with it if you hate DnD lore? Why to mess Vanilla lore? 

You said that I got ‘remarkable display of arrogance’. But maybe it’s your problem? Nobody asked to touch Vanilla lore. You are famous for creating the most ‘heavy’-lore (FAAngand) variant and now bring your Tolkien obsession to V ‘for the greater good’, no matter what. Remarkable display of arrogance, I’ll say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 
For what it’s worth, I am confident that takkaria would be happy for me to say on behalf of both of us that Derakon was completely correct. This is not surprising; he has been involved with Angband since pretty much the start, has made major contributions to the game, and actually listens to what people say.

Ok, so you could read Takkaaria mind, apparently. Good job. But the thing is: 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar 
even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth (Gandhi).

At the end I wanna add that among this forum there are people that simply fear to have disagreement with you, Nick. I don’t wanna tell the names, cause it would be bad act on their privacy, but it’s old and respectable members of community. The name of this topic “Nick is going to butcher the game” is a quote from discord chat with one of them, it’s not my words (but I agree with them). This people say very harsh words about stuff you are doing with V (much more hursh then stuff I’m saying). But at this forum they do not critisize you. Why? Now I think I understand. I’m kinda ‘new’ at this forum, but this people are there for years and they knew you better, than I am. They wasn’t as naive as I am:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar 
trying to be unaffected and to look from the point of view of the game itself, impersonal// sorry for offtopic 

They knew that everything depends on you and if they would argue – you would ‘ban’ then / ignore their suggestions / won’t give access to development process, like you did it to me right now.

Now I see how stuff works there. At last. Thanks for an enlightenment.

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